Sunday, 30 December 2007

Lucy Griffiths tribute: Marian R.I.P.

Did Marian love Robin Hood? Of course she did. It was written long, long ago, in Faith systems older than Christ, that when the Green man comes down into the village from the forest during the first days of Spring, and takes a Maid (virgin) for his bride, then the harvest will be rich and plentiful, and only good will return to the land. Did they marry? Of course they did. But probably not in Edwinstowe Church. The Green Man would have married his Maid in a simple Pagan ceremony, deep in the forest, and long before subsequent faith systems made Pagan sound like a dirty word.
This is surely the basis of the Robin Hood legend: Two characters of equal importance, whose love provides a source of hope for all. So it's not too difficult to see how, decades later, the tale incorporated teenage youths from the streets of Nottingham, desperate to try and improve the circumstances of their families. Neither is it hard to see how that tale was extended to include the Royalist propaganda that King Richard's return to England (a country he disliked), would mean a return to happier times. Therefore, even though I don't subscribe to the theory that the "real" Robin Hood was ever Lord of Loxley, nor had anything whatsoever to do with King Richard, the fact that the relationship between Robin and Marian was a story of hope and optimism against all the odds, was central to Lucy Griffiths' role. It was her skill in portraying that aspect of the legend which made her particular Maid Marian not only so very popular, but arguably the main character in the series itself.
Our Marian, the old Sheriff of Nottingham's daughter, fell in love with Lord of Loxley during their teens. It was a "first love", but no less the serious for it. We never knew too much about their early courtship, but Marian's slightly petulant outbursts when Robin returned from the Holy Lands, exhibit both a degree of immaturity, and her obvious feelings for him. This is in part a teenage girl feeling deserted by the man she loves, embarking on who knows what adventures abroad (with the enemy and with the girls); but it is also a young woman who has witnessed at first hand the suffering caused at home by the neglect of an absent King. She sees the truth which Robin Hood will never see: the King has deserted them. And it is this reality which pushes Marian towards adulthood. A "maid" she might indeed remain, but she will reach a level of maturity beyond that of Robin Hood.
We all remember those early days; Lucy in her "Top Shop" styles, the cause of much good humoured comment here. But that was a part of her charm; the "girl next door" (if an ex-Sheriff's daughter might be considered "next door"!). And it was a tribute to Lucy Griffiths that she quickly gathered a huge and loyal female audience. We all remember her typically teenage problems with her father, Edward. He of course only wanted what was best for her, and once Robin of Loxley had lost his title, Gisborne soon seemed a more appropriate match. Such is the way with fathers.
Lucy Griffiths' Marian was not the first Maid Marian to be a capable fighter, archer, or spy. All these qualities were prevalent in the first successful television series of the 1950s. But what was new was her determination to "go it alone" on behalf of the people. Not for Lucy the waiting around in expectation that Robin Hood would "see the light". Witnessing the horrors of war would never change Robin the way it did Much, and so it was that on several occasions Marian donned the Night Watchman costume to deliver food to the people of Nottingham. Her tactics were quintessentially female: No more violence than was necessary (we never knew where she acquired her fighting skills), and if all else failed there was always her beauty and her feminine guile. Sadly, it was her reliance on these latter qualities which led to her fate.
Marian never loved Gisborne. As an inexperienced young girl she was not unaware of his physical attraction (Armitage with his armour off was an attractive sight), but it never went deeper. However, true to the tradition of Marian being a symbol of hope, Lucy did harbour thoughts that Gisborne might somehow be "saved" from himself. She believed that, if anyone could change him from being a simple beast with a basic urge for power, it was her. That was the charitable side of her disposition. It's what Marian, the "original English Rose", was all about. But she was wrong. Gisborne's pulse only ever quickened when some kind of abuse was involved, such as the threat of killing either her or her father if she didn't comply with his demands. On the one occasion when Marian really seemed willing to lower all resistance, offering herself to Gisborne if the Sheriff were dead, Gisborne loses all interest and gives her up for execution. The fact that Series 2 ended with Gisborne riding away on the back of the Sheriff's horse, just as Series 1 had ended with Marian riding away on the back of Robin Hood's, was an iconic and meaningful image not lost on this reviewer at least.
The relationship between the Beauty Marian and the Beast Gisborne confused many. I've always thought that was due to "wishful thinking" on the part of many fans, that Gisborne would reveal himself as a dark, romantic type; a roguish lover. But that was never, ever in the script. Gisborne watched Marian's hair shorn in public (Series 1, episode 4). It's how he got his kicks. Nevertheless, the relationship was the most important in the series because it contrasted Marian as a symbol of what England could be about, against Gisborne as a symbol of brute force and ambition driven solely by a desire for power. It was fascinating to observe Lucy Griffiths rise to the challenge of this role, and develop as an actor. Remember Series 1, Episode 7, when she was locked in the bedroom with Gisborne, and Robin was on the balcony? We were all terrified because she took us inside her mind; terrified at the balancing act she was having to perform between preserving what she could of the England she remembered in her father's day, and the risk of physical attack from the man threatening her in the privacy of her own quarters. I think it was from that moment on that we knew Lucy Griffiths was the star of the show, her character representing what "the cause" was all about. It could only be Gisborne's small blade which scarred and drew blood from that character at the end of Series 1, a climax by which Lucy's acting skills had developed beyond all criticism.
On that occasion, Marian didn't die. She rode away with her true love, and the prophesy of the Green Man of the forest and the village Maiden was fulfilled. It could have, maybe should have, ended there. The confusion which followed, often expressed within the comments boxes on this site, was never anything to do with Lucy Griffiths who retained her popularity throughout. It was to do with the depiction of her character. And maybe that was inevitable. After all, what role is the village Maiden to play once her love is given, and the harvest is good?
All of Marian's problems in Series 2 came not only from the Beast she thought she could control, but from the man she loved. As Robin Hood stubbornly refused to turn his attentions from the King in the Holy Lands, Marian became increasingly embroiled in her own intent to fight for causes closer to home. But in doing so she quickly got out of her depth: Even Count "Fruitcake" Freidrich could see through her feminine advances when she pretended to serve the Sheriff, and later on, holding a dagger to the spine of the Sheriff's armour maker was just asking for trouble, and she ended up spending the next part of the series confined to quarters.
The true climax of Series 2 is the climax of Lucy's character between Episodes 6 and 8. We were promised a "darker" series than the first, and this was where it truly culminated: In Episode 6, when Gisborne leaves her room and meets the Sheriff in the corridor, we know he will only ever really be the Sheriff's "boy", and that Marian has really pushed her luck too far in trying to control this Beast who then watches her pimped out to Winchester. In Episode 7 Lucy gives another award winning performance when her father is slain. Award winning? Well, it should have been. I can understand the accolades poured upon Billie Piper for her performance as Rose in Doctor Who. It helped re-launch the series. So I fail to understand why Lucy Griffiths hasn't been applauded in the same way by the industry at large. Possible because of perceived faults in Robin Hood as a whole, and certainly not because of her contribution.
Episode 7 could have (should have?) been the end. Once again, as with the end of Series 1, the Green man prophesy is fulfilled as she rides towards the forest. But for Episode 8 at least there is still a kind of insane logic to the proceedings. Accusations have been levelled about a lack of continuity, but by now the whole world in which Marian is living has turned upside down: She is a young woman now. Nothing makes one embrace adulthood quicker than the death of a parent. But she does not giving herself a chance to grieve for her father, distracting herself instead with her fight for justice in Nottingham. And of course, because of Robin's attitude, she doesn't only find herself alone in that fight, but also witnesses Allan's desertion from the ranks. Marian has surely never felt so alone as she felt at this moment. When Robin Hood proposes in Episode 9, of course she agrees. But her words echo back to us now like someone alone and confused: "Who will give me away?" These are no longer the words of the focussed, energetic, youthful Marian we knew. Her time (England's time?) was running out; if not actually been and gone.
In the end, with her judgement impaired by confusion, Marian stood too close to the Beast one too many times. She was boxing far above her weight, and it was inevitable that Gisborne's blade would not fail a second time anymore than his naked, animal aggression could ever be tamed or controlled. His greatest desires were neither romantic nor sexual. His greatest skill was to kill.
This is not a fan site. This is not simply about Lucy Griffiths, however excellent she has certainly proven to be. This site is about the BBC's "Robin Hood" in relation to the whole legend. And it is the death of Marian which has effectively killed, though not necessarily ended, the BBC's series. In the timeless legend of Robin Hood, it is the love and future plans between Robin and Marian, which bring hope of a brighter future. The death of Marian, and the meaningless waffle Robin Hood came out with in response to Much's more moving and personal revelations about the horror of war, meant an end to all optimism. It is a cynical ending, devoid of true innovation, and one destined to prevent this particular interpretation of the Legend of Robin Hood from becoming an enduring classic through the years ahead.
I know everyone here would like to wish Lucy Griffiths a long and successful career.

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126 Comments:

Blogger robin hood said...

Lucy Griffiths. Marian dies. Death of Marian, BBC series 2, episode 13.

30 December 2007 at 18:40:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Robin Hood.

Robin Hood BBC series 2.

Robin Hood - Jonas Armstrong.
Marian - Lucy Griffiths.
Guy of Gisborne - Richard Armitage.
Sheriff of Nottingham - Keith Allen.
Little John - Gordon Kennedy.
Much - Sam Troughton.
Allan A Dale - Joe Armstrong.
Will Scarlet - Harry Lloyd.
Djaq - Anjali Jay.
Edward - Michael Elwynn.

30 December 2007 at 18:40:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry I disagree . Gisborne supported Marian on many occasions . His loyalty in relation to her stand in Nottingham .Time and time again he bailed her out . He tried to protect as far as he was able. She the innocent offered a death for a marriage Think back to Gisbourne`s conversation prior to their marriage.What killed her was his lack of trust -he didn`t believe in her . But he still wanted her -dreadful mess

30 December 2007 at 19:02:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

It's good that people disagree. That's what a blog should be all about. Thankyou for the contribution.

I still stand by my assessment. And I think similar posts on the other characters in the series, how they have or have not developed, would be a good idea.

So Gisborne would be a good subject to return to.

30 December 2007 at 19:11:00 GMT  
Blogger Clement of the Glen said...

Robin dies slowly in the surviving medieval ballads. He is gradualy bled to death, by the wicked prioress and that is exactly how I feel the series has gone. Drip by drip the series has faded away.Yes there have been a few highlights, but on the whole it has been a huge disapointment.

What I feel so frustarting is the fact that it has been made by the BBC! World famous for there fantastic award winning costume dramas! And like many Robin Hood enthusiasts I sincerely feel it was an opportunity well and truly wasted.

On a positive note I have thoroughly enjoyed being part of this group (of Hoodies) and reading the oppinions. Robin's pictures and details of each episode have brought the whole thing together magnificently. I do hope we stay in touch. Don't forget a new Robin Hood film is being made in 2008!

But a third series? Where do the writers go from here? I am going to miss lovely Lucy! But I have an idea of what they might do about Maid Marian. (REMEMBER YOU READ IT HERE FIRST!)

In Robin of Sherwood the writers brought Robin back as the Earl of Huntingdon. I reckon we will see Robin's new love interest as Lady Matilda Fitzwalter, in a nod towards the Elizabethan Robin Hood plays by people like Munday etc.

Bye For Now!

30 December 2007 at 20:29:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i would like to suggest robin hood fans have a glance at an FHM intervew that Lucy Griffiths undertook recently it states that the actress has already signed up for the 3rd series.
Im not too sure how they are going to work marian back into the series after they literally buried her at the end of the second series, but it should be interesting to see.

30 December 2007 at 21:33:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Clement

It comes as no surprise that we two Robin Hood fans (as opposed to Jonas / Harry / Lucy fans), are in broad agreement about the series. I do hope that everyone here who has taken an interest in that legend will check out Clement's amazing site. There are some gems to be found there amongst the visuals in particular.

30 December 2007 at 21:40:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

anon, & everyone

If the BBC think they can return Lucy to life, with any semblance of their already dented credibility, count me out.

How ridiculous would that be? The plan would have had to be carried out with Gisborne's compliance. And why would he do that? To get her away from the Sheriff? He could have done that before. To hope he might win her back from Robin once she's living with the outlaws in the forest? Get real.

It's over, Hoodies... and the ghost of Lucy I just can't begin to think of as a credible plot line.

30 December 2007 at 21:45:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

billie piper was said to have signed on for a 3rd series of doctor who but she never appeared in it

31 December 2007 at 10:47:00 GMT  
Anonymous angie said...

I don't want Lucy Griffiths to quit... that is just so devastating. And how can Marian die? It is completely different from the original tales... horrible horrible ending!

But yes, if she indeed is leaving, then I do wish her the best for her future. I am just not going to watch any more 'Robin Hood' episodes without her in it!!!

31 December 2007 at 10:58:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

anonymous

The "signed for a third series" talk does sometimes have to be taken with a pinch of salt. For example, if the BBC are trying to sell a show to America, are they going to say "Oh and by the way, the leading lady dies"?

The same with David Tennent's comments about whether he will or won't leave Dr Who. What he's actually saying is "How much will you pay me to stay?"

So yes, you are correct. We were told Billie Piper would continue, and she didn't.

PR talk is not plain English.

Same with Harry Lloyd being the Doctor, or the Little Britain guy being Friar Tuck. Someone at the BBC saying "He's great, he'd be perfect for the role" is not the same as someone putting cash on a manager's table.

31 December 2007 at 12:17:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Sunday 30th December, 1,812 people visited this site, whilst 1,397 visited my Series 1 site.

Not one person left a positive comment about the finale episode.

31 December 2007 at 12:22:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For the first time in my life I feel I am broadly in agreement with everyone who has posted on this amazing site.

I felt from the start that Jonas Armstrong was not well cast.I have watched him in other stuff and feel that he can deliver a good performence in second position but not in a principal role .

Armstrong appears to have more of a defined magnetic presence and would have made a more realistic Hood.Might have delivered some real passion between Hood and Marian which would acted as a ballist against the sterling performences from Armitage and Griffiths.
Sam was quite brilliant as was Keith Allen.
The writing could be fluid and poignant .The gradual build up of the developing relationship between Guy and Marian was well orchestrated .The hidden truths that only us as the viewers were aware for ten episodes centred around Marian as an informer ,her usage of Guy ,Alan as a pathological liar ,Sam as a philosopher .Using modern day situations was clever and at times insightful.
But the writers had boxed themselves into a corner aware this relationship is the crowd puller .Marian would have to grow Guy would support and Robin would be absorbed in his own little world .

In two episodes attempts are made
to convey to us that the pathological liar with a phenomenal survival instinct can no longer bluster .

Marian develops insight that Poirot would be proud of.

Guy instantaeously that Marian must still have a relationship with Robin-based on no new information.That starts to colour Guy and from that point she has lost.
The death bed scene was a hoot.

Do I think Marian has died -yes no choice.
But like Phoenix -rise mathilda or kate -fresh from the nunnery looking remarkably like her twin.

Far too much money involed to kill Griffiths off.

To my fellow Scot i also heard that Tennant comment before Christmas .

I would not be surprised if he is leaving.

what future work is Lloyd listed for?

31 December 2007 at 21:35:00 GMT  
Anonymous kiana said...

first :
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ROBIN HOOD (JONAS ARMSTRONG)!
second:
HAPPY NEW YEAR !
***
I have to say it was an awful ending! in the original story marian and robin married ... every one knows it! and yes Im so angry with this ending ... I watched every episode of this series hoping to finally see their wedding in the sherwood forest but what I got "finally" was crying and swearing to the writers ...
by the way I have to say marian did a GREAT job in this last episode that really made me cry in her final scene when she died, I really have no idea about watching the rest of robin hood without her!
I think lucy was the best best actress in robin hood series even better than jonas armstrong, and she was really really beautifull ... I hope she work more in the future

1 January 2008 at 08:54:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

anon

You say: "Far too much money involed to kill Griffiths off".

If the BBC sell a third series on the promise that Lucy appears in it, then they can simply put her on screen as a guiding spirit for a couple or so episodes and be legally sound. (Or even "flashbacks").

"What future work is Lloyd listed for?"

Doctor Who is a rumour and a possibility when Tennant leaves. Before that the BBC are going to milk the romance with Rose one more time.

1 January 2008 at 14:24:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Kiana,

Happy new year.

I feel the same. No Lucy = Okay, I'll watch it. But far less avidly.

1 January 2008 at 14:26:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We all agree Lucy was good ,stands to reason she will be working or would have future work lined up that information would be listed on one of the sites not a cheep

Great publicity for a new project.

Lloyd is listed for work in 2008.
as are the others.Lucy nothing.

I never subscribed to the Little Britain chap he was too busy .

I think your site must be plagued by Scots.

I heard that brief interview with Tennant on B.B.C Radio Scotland too.He did sound like he was considering his options.

Lucy as some kind of ghost -ghastly thought.

My money is on Lucy as sister , cousin -whatever.

That would open up the field

1 January 2008 at 15:16:00 GMT  
Anonymous Annie said...

Thank you for this lovely take on Lucy Griffiths's Marian, Robin. I especially appreciate the historical context. I'd written my response to the season finale before reading this--I could simply have referenced what you say about hope and the Robin Hood legend, the lack of which accounts for my main sadness about the episode. I agree that Marian was the heart and soul of this Robin Hood, and her death has killed the series.

I must have had a screw loose in thinking they could bring back Marian. I watched the ending again, and she's clearly dead as a doornail. Griffiths returning as a cousin or ghost is soap opera territory, not that I'd put it past the writers. Your suggestion that Griffiths wanted out of the series is a much more persuasive explanation, and might account for why the writing took a turn for the worse two thirds of the way through. The writers may not have been planning to kill her off and had to change plans. Perhaps I'm giving them too much credit, though, and they really were that bad at coming up with a plausible ending for season 2.

My only slight quibble with your analysis is that I think Gisborne was portrayed, implausibly and against character, as possibly redeemable in the later episodes.

I look forward to your post on Robin's character development, such as it was. I think JA's acting was stronger overall in the first series--as Emily said in her response to the episode, it must be tough when actors know their characters and are then handed writing that sabotages them.

1 January 2008 at 17:00:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe that all the actors and actresses in the series are great, but they can only be as good as the script and i think this has let them down!

1 January 2008 at 19:37:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a petition that people can sign to bring Marian back. Even if you don't want the BBC to bring Marian back because it would be "Cheesy" etc., you should still sign the petition if only to let them know that we did NOT in any way like that ending!! (The only difference it will probably make is to show the BBC how upset the fans were). I, for one, am sick of having shows ruined by the writers,etc. trying to be "new and different." All they succeeded by killing Marian (UNNECESSARILY!) was to destroy a legend and an awesome story. Now it is just pointless and depressing. So please sign the petition, if only to let our voice be heard. The show didn't deserve this... nor did the fans. And even if you didn't mind the ending, maybe you should really think about how much better the show would have been with Marian alive. Think of Series 3 without her. Please SIGN!!
Here's the link... http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/save-marian

1 January 2008 at 20:31:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Thanks for posting the petition and contributing.

However, for me she is now dead.

I'm never going to believe any other. So involved was I with the series, it would be impossible for me to swallow some idiotic "return from the grave" story.

I don't think the writers here were "new and different". I think they served up the same trite formula they serve up every end of sseason. (Witness what happened in "Spooks" for example).

1 January 2008 at 20:39:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

By killing her the writers tidy up all the lose ends . She will be back in probably the cheesiest fashion ever.

When you actually think about it -mad it may be-her as her sister ?cousin makes sense in cheesey land .Sherrif won`t throw new dame in the dungeon. a new start for her and Robin, a bit more mature, and of course she will be forced into a relationship with Gisbourne -brutal .Why don`t we ask the B.B.C direct

1 January 2008 at 20:54:00 GMT  
Blogger kej said...

Harry Lloyd is signed up for a play in London through the middle of April. I'm not sure if that overlaps with the "Robin Hood" shooting schedule--if it does, I don't think they overlap by much, so I can see Will coming back an episode or two into the season.

(With Marian slung over a horse?)

1 January 2008 at 22:36:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Hoodies,

Just to keep things in focus: The Richard the Lionheart mini-series is not a spin off. But it is tue to say Harry Lloyd is in it playing a character called Lucas.

And Richard is played by Steven Waddington, the same actor as in Robin Hood.


All I can tell you is here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1107882/

2 January 2008 at 00:55:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh my... this is so upsetting and devastating. I am in the US and will have to wait quite a while for these episodes to be shown. I have always been so keen on the RH legend and loved this version and all those involved. I have been so grateful for all your reviews and information. Now I feel so bereft.
How could they so callously ruin this series? Thank you for Lucy's lovely tribute. kp

2 January 2008 at 01:21:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My friend came up with what i think is a rather ridiculous comebac for Marian, but anyway she comes back will be ridiculous. The idea is that wasn't really Marian, it's an imposter of sorts but none of the gang know. So she could still be in England?? I mean it seems so unlikely but i think that's the only way they can bring her back to life without it looking too bad!

2 January 2008 at 11:48:00 GMT  
Anonymous gerbillcat said...

I couldn't agree more. Robin Hood is about hope, with Marian's death they have effectively killed off the heart & soul of the show. I was really looking forward to a third season but now I can't really see much point to the story anymore. Marian, the strong and brave Marian we had come to love, killed at the hands of a bully for having the nerve to stand up for herself...what kind of a message is that sending out?

2 January 2008 at 14:02:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi gerbillcat

You point "what kind of a message is that sending out?" is a valid one. What kind of message indeed.

Sure, one can argue that Marian died defending England, as rose "died" defending Earth in Doctor Who (before ending up in some kind of parallel phantom zone which nobody really understands).

But I agree it was wrong for brute force to succeed in that way in relation to this legend and the time it is aired.

2 January 2008 at 15:49:00 GMT  
OpenID erin1013 said...

I think the message her death sends is to reinforce the unfortunate theme of the rebellious bad woman being punished for sexuality and her refusal to behave and follow the conventional rules of society. Marian, has used her sexuality to attempt to control Guy and her toughness as the Night Watchman, to rob him and fight the tyranny of the Sheriff. Her conflicts with her father, Robin, Guy, and the Sheriff are always about men telling her what to do, but she maintains her fierce independence and makes her own decisions. As a woman, even though presumably "playing" Guy, she is torn between Guy and Robin, knowing that Robin is her soulmate but undeniably attracted to Guy - she is stirred by him, and turned on to some extent by his brutality. (For example, in Lardner's Ring, she insists to Robin that she has to go back to the castle, that she is more use there, but as her father is dead, she is really returning to Guy & delaying her commitment to Robin.)And yes, she believes that her love can redeem him or control him - that is her fatal mistake. Ultimately she is murdered because of her refusal to submit to any man. As she lays dying, murdered by Guy, she finally submits herself and marries Robin. This ending only proves that if only Marian had kept her place and made a choice, and done what she was told by either Guy or Robin, she would be safe. She dies ultimately not for her pursuit of justice, but for her duplicity in being involved with both of them, and of her desire for the bad man, Guy. But her refusal to give herself to him completely without some compromise on his part, has caused her death. Coversely, if she would have done as Robin wished, and stopped acting on her own, married him sooner, stayed with him and his gang, she would be alive as well.

Terrible, to create a character as strong and feminist as Marian, and then crush her completely. If this is the attitude of the writers, maybe they should leave off all female characters completely. Although there will be nothing interesting to watch without Marian.

2 January 2008 at 20:50:00 GMT  
Blogger kej said...

I see where you're coming from, and I mostly agree. But I'm also a bit hesitant because of the nature of the show. In an action/adventure series with a high body count, I don't much more want to see a strong, feminist, sexualized female character automatically exempt from the effects of violence than I want her to be the more specific target of it. After all, we see strong, interesting men drop dead on this show all the time--Roy and Legrande come to mind immediately. The thing is, we got to know Marian much longer and better than any of those characters. Perhaps if we lost one of the male members of the gang, it would event things out? I'm being facetious, but only semi. We've come to have such high expectations of this one character, partly because Nottingham and Sherwood are such boys clubs by the very nature of the legend, that I don't know what, in the long term, the writers could have done with Marian to make us happy.

Of course, keeping her alive would have been a good start for the short run....

3 January 2008 at 04:31:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been thinking about this show for the past two days, well mostly the ending, but i seem to get no closure from it. It's just that last year they did the same thing to us andthen right when we gave in BAM she was alive. And now i just can't belive it, yes i have thought about future twists and bringing her back but none seem plausble, they have made it so i dosn't seem real. Its like the story about the boy who cried wolf, when there finally is a wolf nobody believs him. I mean i really really really want Marian to be alive, im freakin heart broken, and i know she's dead but...i dont know i just can't get it through me head that she isn't coming back. The writers SUCK, there isn't going to be a third series because there isn't a show without her, they threw the whole show down the drain.

and i agree with Kej, we did get to know Marian way more than Roy and Legrande and that makes losing her that much harder, But that thing i my head again is telling me they did this already and....gosh, you know i didn't even cry when she was stabbed cause i was thinking "Oh hahaha, your not going to fool me again" i was expecting djac to save her once more, or Marian to be like "Oh it's just a flesh wound."

Gaaa i can't come to turms with reality....


-crushed and broken Laura

3 January 2008 at 06:24:00 GMT  
Anonymous Annie said...

Kej, I think you make some excellent points. I wouldn't want Marian or Djaq exempt from the violence on the show either. (Erin, that's not to say that your points aren't valid, too. Strong women are all-too-often punished for being independent.) That said, I can't help thinking that Marian's death was driven by pragmatism rather than character development. Laura, you're not alone in being heartbroken! If Lucy Griffiths wanted off the show, the writers could have come up with another solution (sent her to Kirklees? imprisoned her in London?) that would keep the door open for her return--just as they've done for Djaq and Will. After the end of last season, my son said, "well, the writers delivered. Marian & Robin on horseback, a romantic kiss, and if that's not quite enough for us, the sheriff upended and the gang cheering!" As others have said, it's not Marian's death per se that's crushed us but the meaningless of it.

3 January 2008 at 13:54:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I must admit i;ve always found marian and guy's relationship strange, they seem such an odd couple wanting different things. Yes he may love her but i think its more the possession of someone like her that he wanted more than actually her. I think that she had feelings for him but in a friendship way tryin to find the good in him, she could neva love him like he wanted her too. At times i was practically shouting at the tv, couldn't she remember he burnt down her house, threatened her on several occasions,murdered innocent people and made lustful comments to her. I must admit i was pleased when she finally told him she loved robin, but had no one noticed she rode off wiv him at the end of the last season!!!

3 January 2008 at 15:29:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Annie,

Your son's comment of "well, the writers delivered. Marian & Robin on horseback, a romantic kiss, and if that's not quite enough for us, the sheriff upended and the gang cheering!" was absolutely on the mark.

I think that ending was so perfect.

At the end of series 2 we had "the Sheriff & Guy on horseback", all that was missing was the romantic kiss.

kej

As I said in my tribute, it's a great credit to Lucy Griffiths that she gained a huge, admiring female fan base, as opposed to any "bitchy" comments about her beauty, or closeness to Jonas. And I therefore agree with you, and think you and others have made a good point about the importance of a strong female role in the series.

In series 2 we lost Marian to the sword, and Djaq to the kitchen sink!

3 January 2008 at 17:31:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi erin,

As you rightly say:

"Terrible, to create a character as strong and feminist as Marian, and then crush her completely."

3 January 2008 at 17:33:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree but i think her charcter being unhinged in the last two episodes-i watched itagain and the idea of a kitchen sink is uppermost in my mind

3 January 2008 at 19:35:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Annie you hit it right on the mark, The reason i was, am, feeling so empty was because it was meaningless. We had no inkling that this sort of thing would happen. ANd we get nothing from it either. MEANINGLESS!!

Still frusterated!!

Laura

3 January 2008 at 21:40:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait! Robin what "bitchy" comments were made about Lucy's beauty and closeness to Jonas??

3 January 2008 at 21:41:00 GMT  
Blogger Talie-Orfée said...

I think that Robin meant that no such comments were made.

3 January 2008 at 21:58:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi talie-orfee

Thanks. Exactly what I was trying to say. There were none. Everyone liked her. Such was the power of our Lucy.

3 January 2008 at 23:56:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i just wondered will lucy be in the third series as at the end of series 2 she gets killed yet there is no blood even when she pulls out the sword aslo on the internet it says that she signed up for a 3rd series.

wish her luck 4 the future if she has lefted

4 January 2008 at 15:13:00 GMT  
Anonymous EredySpain said...

Hi!! I'm from spain, at first, sorry my english... is not as well i want...
I had watched the show on Internet... I found one day BBC Robin Hood in some page, searching the song "Every thing I do" from the film Robin Hood (Kevin Costner, 1991)... So, in the moment i saw Marian (Lucy Griffiths) and the new Robin (Jonas Armstrong) I had been searching about the show... and I watched all the first season... and I felt in love... I love the show, everything, I am studying cinema and tv and I think that the had made a great work.
Well... I told a lot of things but none interesting... jejeje... Season Finale 2 was... incredible... I had been crying all the episode, and at the end... when Marian dead... OMG... I couldn't belive that... I had read that Lucy Griffiths had sing for season third... And I was watching the episode once again (well, for times... ) and I thought: Marian's dress had not blood signs... ¿Why? It was WHITE... all white... none blood?? I can't belive it... And in the dessert... when Much was telling Robin he couldn't heard him very well... because he was near to lose consciousness...
It could be all in Robin's mind... and season third starts on Dessert again... It could be better than bring Marian to life... or Marian like a ghost... I don't know... I only want to come October as far as can...
Bye bye

5 January 2008 at 20:32:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi EredySpain,

and thankyou for your contribution.

The reason there was no blood from Marian is because the programme is broadcast too early on the BBC for them to show that. An excess of blood will only even be shown after 21.00 hours.

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the finale. A lot of English fans (like me) were rather disappointed. So it's always good to hear another point of view.

5 January 2008 at 21:06:00 GMT  
Anonymous EredySpain said...

Ahh... OK... I didn't know that...
I like the finale... but... I think if it was the end of the end of the end... it was a great finale, not a happy ending, but yes a good ending... But I also think that it seems season finale 1, when Marian come back from death... It was the same... It wasn't good... This kind of season end is the worst... I think they could do it better...
Other thing... I had read in, i think this is the website, bbc nottingham (could be??) that Lucy had decided to leave the show because she wants to work in Hollywood... If that it's true... I have to say two things:
- It's marketing, because if a good show with this share can't let leave an actress like her. And don't forget that se is one of the four principal characters (you understand me? It's my english.....)
- Two: If it is that... I think that Lucy did't think enought about it... because it was only one year more... maybe eight months more. Because Jonas Armstrong also say that we won't to be in the show more seasons than third.

Yersterday, in spain, was the premier of Robin Hood. Yes.. !!! On the chanel "La Sexta", a small chanel, (no more 5% in share). I wish the best for it in Spain and I wish Jonas or one of the cast, come to Spain... (pleas jonas, pleeeeeeeaaaaseeeee...)

5 January 2008 at 21:34:00 GMT  
Anonymous Aeriha said...

About the blood thing. In the first season, when she was "dying", we did see a lot of blood on Djaq's hand. I understand if they don't want her to be swimming in her own blood but it's only natural to see a little bit of blood for such a wound... As you can see, I'm still "in my cheesy world" hoping that the character of Marian will be back (even if it's not Lucy in the role). There are so many talented actresses, I can not believe they couldn't find someone to replace her... I think the authors were really off the track in those two episodes. I also feel that those two episodes didn't fit with the rest of the series. Not only about Marian's death, but Will and Djaq... always calling each other "my love"... I just don't by it!!! I really don't know if I will be watching season 3... I'm really depressed right now... I though that it would be a "happy ending" show. If I want people to die, I'll watch Prison Break, or Lost or 24!!

6 January 2008 at 04:05:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hiya,

I know im kinda late to be commenting on the last episode, but im going to anyway.

I have seen the last episode twice, and both times i had tears pouring down my cheeks when Marian died. My mum now thinks im mental coz she came in when i was in the middle of my crying fit with massive mascara panda eyes.
It was completely unexpected, and i know Marian was protecting the king but how thick do you have to be to say to the man who loves you that you love his enemy while he has got a sword in his hand!!!

But anyway, I think Marian will be back in the third series.
When Guy is having that weirdo dream where everyone is massaging him, maybe the rest of the episode is a dream.
OR someone is hallucinating from the gang when they are in the desert, and the rest of the episode didnt happen.

I dont think Lucy Griffiths will come back as a twin sister or cousin coz I think that would just look mega weird.

I hope she is in season 3 coz she was easily one of the best actors on the show. And the romance part of the show was the best part, im not really that interested in the fighting.

8 January 2008 at 20:02:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Sorry anonymous, but it seems pretty official now (according to her agent's reported comments on other forums), that Lucy is not coming back.

8 January 2008 at 20:27:00 GMT  
Blogger Jenzie said...

hello

I was the last anonymous post, I have just gotten an account here.

Sorry for sounding so obsessed about the show last time, I just re-read it then I do sound a bit weird.

I had seen the FHM article where it said Lucy Griffiths was coming back for the third series and I just thought that the season finale was going to be another twist to try and make the story more interesting.
But, I have now seen her agents report saying she will not be coming back.
(I will just have my fingers crossed that the agents report wasn't official)

But I doubt that she is coming back. I wonder if the numbers of Robin Hood viewers will go down drastically proving what a significant role Marian was to the show.
But I might tune in for an episode or two, to drool over Jonas Armstrong.

9 January 2008 at 19:43:00 GMT  
Blogger kej said...

But I might tune in for an episode or two, to drool over Jonas Armstrong.

Hee! I was talking with a friend who's a reluctant fan of the show about why she liked it. Her immediate answer? "Cute boys who are young but legal."

9 January 2008 at 22:04:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Spare a thought for the guys 'round here. Both Anjali and Lucy gone!

It's now an all male cast!

9 January 2008 at 22:08:00 GMT  
Blogger Janina said...

All male cast? Please RH, how do you know it? So it all will be about revenge and saving England? No romance? Brrr. I take my car and drive to Budapest :-) or where is the show filmed. I have to know it exactly. Or is there somebody from Hungary? They could know something.

10 January 2008 at 10:31:00 GMT  
Anonymous Aeriha said...

Did anyone saw on Wikipedia that it said that Lucy Griffiths confirmed she wasn't back (according to Tiger Aspect)? The thing is, wikipedia is the only place I find a mention of this... Anyway, I'm really starting to think we won't have Marian in the next series... If only BBC could make a D%?%$6 clear statement, everything would be much better.

Anyway. I was also reading on Wikipedia that in many tales, a woman called Clorinda - the shepherdesse was known to be Robin first love (in the early versions of the tale). In fact, it's seems she battled for the "one true love" title for quite a bit of time....Maybe she's gonna be Robin's new love.... Anyway, for me, the legend is Robin and Marian, not Robin and Clorinda. But cheezy as I am, a need a little bit of love in a show to make it work.

So if Marian is out, I really hope we won't have a grieving Robin for all the last series and maybe a little something new. I don't need a depressed hero all the time...

But if there are going to play the Titanic thing (he dies many years later and find his true love only in death) that would SUCK!!! If he starts so love another, than she must be the ONE. Sorry Marian..... If only Marian was back that would solve everything!!!

16 January 2008 at 02:42:00 GMT  
Anonymous kitty said...

According to papers in the east Lucy Griffiths is currenty filming the new James Bond and has been for some time

17 January 2008 at 09:48:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OMG. they can't kill Marian. They stupid screan writers have just changed her whole legend. The legend was about fighting evil and winning. not about losing to evil. i mean this give you the message that evil wins. come on. the screan writers need to get a grip and think of someting fast. you can't have a robin hood legend with out marian. it's like having a house without a roof. everythingjust falls apart.

29 January 2008 at 23:56:00 GMT  
Blogger Emily said...

Hi Robin,
I'm just checking back in again...what forum was this that her agent wrote on?

2 February 2008 at 03:01:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Emily,

Here's the link:

http://www.lucygriffiths.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=522

The question which was sent to her agent appears at the top. Then you need to scroll down a little to read his reply.

2 February 2008 at 10:03:00 GMT  
Blogger Costanza said...

Hi - I realise I am way behind, but I only just managed to see the complete second series having missed most of it when it aired on TV. Firstly I wanted to thank you on such a wonderful analysis of Marian's character, and what her relationship with Robin represents, in legend at least, and say that I love this blog - I only wish I'd found it earlier! Besides that, I'm afraid that what we really lost Marian to was the production interest to spin out the Robin Hood as a show for as long as possible; I've found the script to be notoriously bad throughout both series with occasional, but little respite, so I'm not surprised that having finally got Robin and Marian 'together', the writers ran out of better ideas than to kill off Marian to keep things interesting. Effectively (and this is especially noticeable in Series 2 if you compare the static, almost boring relationship between Robin and Marian to the dangerous, unpredictable relationship between Marian and Gisborne) once Marian and Robin were over their denial and sexual tension, bad writers had nowehere else for them to go and this posed obvious limitations on the series even if it was in line with the original legend. With Marian out of the way, Robin can have new, developing relationships (with bonus issues about his dead true love) instead of just the one done and dusted one, and the series can go on for longer, with new and probably more female roles available. I think Marian's been sacrificed on the altar of monetary interest and bad scriptwriting, basically - which is a damn shame, because I feel that a Marian-less Robin Hood is one flaw too far for the BBC to get away with, certainly where I'm concerned. A really sad ending for a series that could have been so good!

5 February 2008 at 21:23:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

costanza,

Thanks indeed for the kind words. As I've said before to people, my Robin Hood blogs were here long before Jonas, and will stay here when he's gone. (I'm getting more and more curious about the planned Russell Crowe movie "Nottingham", which will revolve more around the Sheriff).

Your point about finding the "script to be notoriously bad", sounds a little harsh. But the vast majority of my readers agree it all came unravelled during the last few episodes in particular. And am I really the only one that feels Armitage's character was poorly written throughout??? (I'll do a post and find out).

I like your point about once Robin and Marian were "over their denial and sexual tension" the series lost a certain tension. This is true. But, all the great versions of Robin Hood see them together (Robin of Sherwood, Robin and Marian, The Adventures of Robin Hood T.V. show, Robin Hood 1990 movie), without any loss of quality.

6 February 2008 at 11:37:00 GMT  
Blogger Costanza said...

Oh, I agree with you completely that the Robin/Marian relationship can be done without loss of quality - that's why I blame the scriptwriters. I think they took the easy way out by killing off Marian instead of concentrating on making the relationship interesting and dynamic even now they were finally together and a bit of the tension had been lost. Besides, I really think Marian is too intrinsic a part of the Robin Hood legend to have her dead, and not just because Lucy Griffiths was so good in the part.

Perhaps saying the script was notoriously bad was harsh - it was probably a lot of frustration speaking! But I did find that the quality varied wildly from episode to episode, and even within episodes. What I had most issue with was the characterisation - as you pointed out, Gisborne! One moment he's 'redeemed' enough to forgive Marian's being the Nightwatchman and having robbed him of the symbol of what he wanted most - his wealth, the next he's thrusting swords into her stomach. Armitage is a fantastic actor but I think his character didn't make enough sense psychologically? In any case, I'll be very interested in any post you write about him!

7 February 2008 at 17:58:00 GMT  
Anonymous Aeriha said...

According to a Radio Times article, even Richard Armitage didn't agree with killing the "love of his life". If even the actor who is supposed to be one of the people who knows the character best doesn't get it... I think it's going to be pretty hard for us to get it... I'm really wondering what they will do with the show now. Jonas Armstrong said he won't be back for a fourth year but the BBC says, in it's official respond, that they want the show to continue on for many years... maybe they will recast Robin. But if they CAN recast him, why not Marian?

7 February 2008 at 23:37:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi aeriha,

I was pleased to read that from Armitage, because I think he was given a poor script throughout series 2. But, as I'm writing an article about that now, I'll keep my thoughts 'til later.

Regarding the BBC's long term plans, what the COULD do is run a series involving an outlaw gang in the DAYS of Robin Hood. Hence the "We are Robin hood" phrase.

8 February 2008 at 00:56:00 GMT  
Anonymous Aeriha said...

Hi Robin,
Thanks for answering.
It would be a good idea to continue the show with the outlaws but as for now, aside Robin, I don't see any leading character that could make the show really interesting. I know many people love Guy of Gisborne but I don't really.... Maybe Robin could have a son or a daughter, that would be ok with me. This legend is my favorite legend and I'm sad that it was changed so much but now, I could live with another great leading pair (Robin and some other) as long as the other girl can make us forget Marian (which means a kickass girl!!). I also have to admit that I don't like that "We are Robin Hood!" Thing. Lack of modesty to me... (even if I get it that they want to show that they are a team and not only a hero playing solo).

8 February 2008 at 22:14:00 GMT  
Blogger A. said...

Marian's character was a symbol of hope for all of Robin Hood's men. They loved her because their leader did, and she was a hero to them. They will be as demoralized as we are now that she is gone!

This was no great stroke of tragedy but rather just a clumsy mistake on the part of the writers... but anything they would do to "bring her back" would be even clumsier.

21 February 2008 at 05:45:00 GMT  
Blogger karmen_sandiego87 said...

Just found your blog. Loved it!!! You said everything I think about Marian and the ending only worded way better!

Sorry I haven't read all the comments so I don't know if someone already asked this, but have you sent this to Dom and Foz, BBC, and Tiger Aspect? You really, really should! I hope they keep getting well thought out letters from people like you so they know the EXTREME dissatisfaction of the fans.

22 February 2008 at 23:43:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi a.

I agree. Bringing her back would be even worse.

22 February 2008 at 23:57:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi karmen_sandie

thanks for the kind words. Enjoy checking out all 4 of my Robin Hood blogs.

I haven't sent it to the people you mention. If you have a contact address you'd care to leave I certainly would.

22 February 2008 at 23:58:00 GMT  
Blogger Louise H said...

I'm going to go against the flow here and say that there was much in the ending that I liked.

There didn't really seem to be many places that they could go with the Robin/Marian/Guy triangle. They couldn't possibly have stretched out the living in the castle/flirting with Guy bit for another series, particularly as the only real justification for her staying in Nottingham was her now deceased father.

She could have joined the gang in Sherwood. However those of us who remember RoS will remember that Marion didn't have anything much of a role once married. It was only when she wasn't hooked up with (either) Robin that there was any chemistry involved. Robin has an argumentative sidekick already- another one is not going to make good TV.

The obvious alternative is to turn it into a proper love triangle, with Marian genuinely involved with Guy. But this is a family show....

I just couldn't see much more coming out of the Marian plots.

I presume that the storywriters had something in mind when they decided to let Guy kill her. We now have a Guy/Robin dynamic which should have the capacity to develop in different ways; whether anything interesting is done with it, we will have to see.

23 February 2008 at 22:28:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Louise H,

Like you, I'm a RoS fan for sure. And I admit that when Marian, Judy Trott, moved into Sherwood she never for a moment looked quite in place. She had a way of running with a sword in her hand as if she was simply late for afternoon tea.

Lucy wasn't like that. She would have been great in Sherwood, still with the whole Night Watchman thing going, and testing Robin's leadership (chauvinism?), from time to time.

She could also have waged a war of her own against Gisborne.

24 February 2008 at 01:28:00 GMT  
Blogger karmen_sandiego87 said...

Robin Hood -

To write to Dom and Foz and Tiger aspect:

Dominic Minghella/Foz Allen
c/o Robin Hood Office/Tiger Aspect Productions
7 Soho Street
London
W1D 3DQ

Email Tiger Aspect: general@tigeraspect.co.uk


To send complaints to BBC you can email them using their contact email form on their website or write to:

Complaints Unit
Robin Hood Series 2
BBC Media Centre
Media Village
201 Wood Lane
London
W12 7TQ

Hope this helps!

26 February 2008 at 22:59:00 GMT  
Blogger Erin said...

I think it's fair to say that at this point, it makes no difference to BBC what they do about Marian. Whether she returns or not, they've achieved what they really want - publicity for Series 3!! How many people do you think are going to tune in to the S3 premiere, if only to find out how the whole Marian thing is resolved? In all fairness, it's pure marketing genius (Not that I'm happy with how that particular thread has been ended, or that I'll be at all happy with anything they do to continue it...)

To be honest, I knew the show was in trouble when I saw the opening credits in 'Sisterhood' (I actually suspected beforehand, but the credits just confirmed it). The new credits were symbolic of what was done the show as a whole. S1 was a somewhat unassuming drama, which invoked a feeling more of a pseudo-documentary/historic than an action-adventure, represented in the silhouettes and neutral colours of the opening credits which gave an air of mystery and legend (which is, after all, what Robin Hood is), and apart from the occasional slip up (such as everyone’s favourite female assassins in E10), kept largely within the realm of believability, while presenting an edgier style to appeal ot modern audiences.
S2, however, lost it’s grip on this delicate balance between what was real and what is entertaining, and ended up with a bit too much of a pantomime feel, in the similar vein to ‘Hercules’ or ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ (wait, haven’t they done a Robin Hood TV show like that before? How did that work out I wonder...) This of course required, and delivered, the standard, run-off-the-mill action sequence montage opening credits. Symptomatic of this decline in standard, the characters look softer, the storylines were weaker and not nearly as well developed, culminating in the widely-discussed and debated finale.
What I really missed in S2 was the ‘fade to black and white then finish with a still’ end of each episode from S1. This always made me think of an old photograph, again invoking that sense of ‘the old days’ that was so great in S1 and so sorely lacking from S2.
I’m interested to hear what other people think of the the difference between S1 and S2, and thoughts on what we might expect from S3...

27 February 2008 at 02:53:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

erin,

I agree that both the editing and appearances of the cast were much "sharper" in series 1. It's REALLY noticeable when watching the repeats now on UKTV Gold.

You comments would be better posted at the top of this blog with the series 1 vs 2 poll.

27 February 2008 at 02:58:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i think lucy should definatley come it wasnt her time to go and the bbc did wrong by her messing her career up and making her look unreliable no wonder she wasnt getting any work the industry possibly didnt trust her in case she would quit something/during the last min thanks to the bbc not that her not getting work is a good thing she should but i think the bbc owe it to her and us to bring her back into the fold to her rightful place im shore she would come back she loved it so much im keeping my hopes up i dont were it will get me but i dont want to think of how upset i might get at her not coming back im just hoping all the stuff we have done i'e petetions, emails, letters have done something i want this so much as i guess most others do i dont care how she comes back just that she does theres still time it aint over yet and besides how do we know that the bbc arent still pulling are legs over this even though all this stuff has come out remember its still all publicity for them im shore the bbc knows what they have done and are trying im hoping to put it right we derserve it lucy deservers it lets finish this show off with a bang {in a good way} with the ending we all dream of AND NO LOVE INTEREST SORRY FOR LONG POST someone please comment thanx

25 March 2008 at 18:46:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

We still have never been given a full explanation of Marian being killed off. The BBC say they aren't giving more details unless Lucy and her agent do...

But there's one thing for sure: Lucy Griffiths is brilliant and will certainly find LOADS of work.

25 March 2008 at 19:18:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

but why will the bbc not come forward and say anything else the cats out of the bag now that it was supposedly their decision why wont they anything else i bet there scared the cowards lucy has in a way showed them up and they dont want to make a comment about it. they most possibly hoping that it wasnt going to get out so soon and now they cant back themsleves up
and as you say she is great and best of luck to her! but as you said they wont step forward and say anything could that mean they dont want to give anything away about series 3 i wonder. could just be me i look forward to this show all year but now im not so shore i want to watch but dont get what i mean answer back please!!!

25 March 2008 at 21:05:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

Do you have a link to an official site where the BBC (not Tiger), say they dropped Lucy Griffiths and / or Marian from the show?

25 March 2008 at 23:43:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

well no the first time i saw it it was on jembiegraphs.blogspot.com lucy griffths i was shocked when i read and there has been alot of disscussion on it since epescially on her forum and website talking about whether it was genuine or not so you colud try there but i doubt you will find it anymore as its been taken down from the site but if you want to see it and draw your own conclusions from it if you want to see it go to her website go down to the robin hood section and click then go into the tread yikes total spoilers for marian there you will find the link to the autogragh and also the link to the explanation from the person as to why it was taken off the website draw what you want from it write back soon thanx

26 March 2008 at 13:01:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ROBIN HOOD
what do you mean by the bbc are not giving out any more info unless lucy or her agent does?
surely most of the info is out now
what is there still for the bbc to hide unless i know we have said it before they want to keep all things series 3 a surprise aka marian and keep us in the dark till the right time this is just my view and i like to think that this is what could be happening reply thanx!!

26 March 2008 at 15:35:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

A lot of info is out, but I wonder how much is credible?

I say again, where are the official links?

Yes I know about second cousins and letters on blogs and myspace pages that may or may not be...

...and it's all great fun. I love it to.

But where is the official statement? Why haven't the paparazzi given chase? (They are normally a very good barometer of what gossip may or may not lay behind a story).

Anyway, at the top of this blog, where the latest Lucy gallery is, you could perhaps comment there and see who has any information? Commenting so far down now might not be noticed.

26 March 2008 at 15:55:00 GMT  
Blogger robin hood said...

PS: "what do you mean by the bbc are not giving out any more info unless lucy or her agent does?

That was a statement from the BBC. (I've lost the link in all this confusion). But that was how they phrased it.

26 March 2008 at 15:56:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thats ok! the only statement i know of is the nottingham one all the others are just letters fan emails etc as i said before about lucy getting let off you just go to her website and a link is there it is not an offical website its just a website which many people are wary about because it was a fan who supposedly sent a email and got one back from her with an answer as to why she left as i said it could be fake and is possible not something she said its a mystery its, not a bbc statement.

26 March 2008 at 16:49:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i also agree with you about the paparazzi giving chase, its weired that there not getting anything from her or seeing her for that matter you would think we would of heard something by now, apart from this fan autogragh stating that the bbc let her go there is no other interviews done its strange you would think if its true, she would want to shed some light on it. but NOTHING!!

26 March 2008 at 16:57:00 GMT  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you know this whole new writers thing did anyone think that maybe the bbc did that because they didnt like the way the writers i.e dominic/foz wrote the last 2 episodes.
maybe as there were doubts as to whether dominic would continue because he said in the past he was unsure whether to do series 2, and then possibly at that time he knew his brother was ill as has been said.
thats a big load to carry and maybe he wasnt thinking to clearly when it was written he must of had so much on his mind then. hence he and foz literaly causeing an explosion.

im hoping that the writer shuffle will do good i mean it cant get any worse can it?

i think these new writers are going to change that ending, the bbc have realised this uproar i (know they havent handled it well}
and there making these changes to put it right otherwise why have new writers anyway you have new writers brought in if you want things to be changed or to spice things up a bit. if you dont want that, you might as well keep the old writers. get what im saying?

on the other hand they might have decided to quit especially dominic and the bbc had to get new writers in to finish what was started

we will never know as you say but its all possible, please someone agree with me on this point i feel that all comments i make are confusing or dont make sense to people who read them im not a natural at this and havent done this before so i dont know what to say you all make good comments i guess

please reply thanx!!

28 March 2008 at 21:10:00 GMT  
Anonymous Corry said...

This episode just screened in Australia last night. WHAT a disappointment. Seems the BBC can't work out what audience demographic they were writing the series for - how dare they kill off Marian. I have 2 very disappointed children who feel very hollow and unsettled after a very unsatisfying ending. Absolutely terrible writing - the writers should be sacked!

28 April 2008 at 04:51:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Corry,

I am in full agreement.

Many people commented on the fact that, as this show screens at a time when children are watching, and as the legend has long been associated with childhood stories, both the gruesome manner of Marian's death, and the fact that she was murdered at all, were TOTALLY inappropriate.

28 April 2008 at 09:28:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What are they thinking?! Half of the viewers are women. We had two representatives, Marian and Djaq. Why didn't they kill off one of the men? (well, not that cute Richard Armitage, but one of the others). It was cruel and thoughtless. Too many men on the writing team. Are there any women at the top of this production crew? My guess is not.

11 July 2008 at 04:56:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi anonymous,

Clearly they were not thinking. The complaints never stop coming in about the death of Marian and the way it was depicted so early in the evening.

I've said it before: It was a dumb idea devoid of all artistic / creative merit, and financial suicide when it comes to long term investment.

It appears, from recent casting rumours involving quite well established actors, that the BBC are wanting to backtrack and put together a series with long term options. My guess is it will end up being an "in the days of Robin Hood" type thing. Time will tell.

Still no casting news regarding new female actors though. They'll have to come up with someone good in that role!

11 July 2008 at 09:19:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

I have thought long and hard about the many twists and turns that may be taken to get Marian into Series 3, and read almost every single blog and this is my hypothesis (the only way i can think of for Marian to come back "credibly"): Robin and his gang are in fact, still tied up in the middle of the desert, and because of the heat and sun, Robin HALLUCINATES all the events leading up to Marian's death. He may be in like a comatose state or something, and series 3 may start of with Carter throwing water in his face and Robin waking up, Marian still alive etc.
highly unlikely, though. i think she is well and truly dead.
i watched the box set's featurette: 'Farewell to Marian' the other night, and Foz and Dom were saying how they decided to kill her off for good, la-di-da-di-da because they'd almost killed her off in series 1. utter disappointment.

16 July 2008 at 10:23:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Eunice,

The hallucination theory has been raised here a few times as a plausible way out of the mess.

But I have to say, as much as I admired Lucy (she was great), if she's still alive and back in the series I think it will lose even more credibility than it already has.

Another way "forward" would be to have a second "Marian". So the new one would be the ACTUAL Marian of legend...

16 July 2008 at 11:31:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

Look - a list of characters that were killed off!
Royston (Roy) White
Edward
Legrand
Carter
Marian
Note how we don't get to know these characters well, and they all die before we get to connect with them - except for Marian. what a let down!
I reckon we won't see any "Marians" in series 3, and Robin will be hell-bent on revenge. I mean, he's lost one of his 3 purposes in life! England, the poor and Marian. Hope he doesn't lose the will to live!
Maybe at the end, when England is back to normal, life restored etc. Robin will kill himself to be with Marian! Morbid - I know.

20 July 2008 at 12:21:00 BST  
Anonymous Aliza said...

Although the loss of Lucy Griffiths as a cast member is considerably unfortunate, the optimist in me is looking for some way to hope that series 3 will be just as good as the other two without resorting to the cliche of a "magical" return.
Without Marian the series could become darker and just depressing, but there's also a chance to introduce new characters (or original characters that were left out)and have a sort of "rebirth" for Robin. I also feel like characters who have been partially developed, but lost in the shadows of the Guy/Marian and Robin/Marian spotlights, will have more chances to show their true colors(Allan A Dale for instance and the relations between him and the gang and him and Guy).
I do see the need for a replacement for Marian and/or Djaq because the series cannot just be all men, but Marian coming back from the dead (again) or even being a ghost just doesn't seem to fit within the "realistic" boundaries already established by the first two series.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of series 3. I'll watch it, but whether it succeeds or not will depend on how it is drawn out.

23 July 2008 at 01:03:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Aliza,

I share your hopes for series 3. It does start to sound like the BBC are atking more control of the product, with a view to long term options.

We knew series 2 would be darker, and I welcomed that prospect, but the ending was ridiculously dark.

Certainly we'll get some more female on board. And I share your view that a ghost Marian is wrong. It works in things like Xena (which I love), and in the 1990s "New Adventures of Robin Hood". But certainly not here.

And lastly, yes it would be nice to see Robin return to the more cheerful character he was at the start, and before it all went so horribly wrong for him as series 2 progressed.

23 July 2008 at 01:17:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Eunice

What is interesting about your list is just how many of those characters were so well liked by the readers here.

A favourite with me was certainly Roy, and that was a great scene where he paid the ultimate sacrifice at the end. But I think carter was the especial favourite here, with many readers hoping he would join the ranks of the merry men (albeit not so merry in this series).

23 July 2008 at 01:22:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

Mmmn... and i forgot Dan Scarlett.

THough, I think that if Gisbourne had known about the SHeriff's attempt at killing off Marian w/out his knowledge by leaving here to die in the desert, he would have thought twice about killing Marian and galloping off with the Sheriff. He should hate the Sheriff - if only he knew!
And yes, I agree, now other characters shall get a chance to shine and play a larger role. Especially Much. Robin seriously neglected his loyal mate in series 1 and 2. Much needs to be loved!

28 July 2008 at 11:00:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Eunice,

I agree Guy should rebel against the Sheriff. His failure to do so is one of the things that only makes sence if you accept (as I do), that he never loved Marian. Ever. It was all manipulation and power play.

Much does deserve more attention. But would we love him if we didn't feel a little sorry for him? (He's still one of my favourite characters. He has been since day 1).

28 July 2008 at 11:27:00 BST  
Blogger Arquen said...

Hello! My name is Alicia.
I am peruvian, and I have just watched the second season´s final chapter in Hallmarl channel yesterday.
I like the series very much (believed UNTIL yesterday that season two was better than one). I am a Robin Hood´s story fan, and as a fan of the series I like Jonas Amstrong in Robin´s role, he is fine for me in the place and I also liked Lucy Griffiths´ Marian, for me it was very annoying to see her dead in seasons last chapter (haven´t ever seen or imagine a dying Marian), and after reading in your comments things like she is gonna come back as a human or even as a ghost makes me believe that writers can´t go such insanity, also agree with the idea that after Marian´s dead and Djaq, there ha to be a new femenine character in series, in a way to make a balance.

29 July 2008 at 02:34:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hello Alicia,

and welcome. I hope you enjoy all my Robin Hood blogs (see links in the sidebar).

I certainly agree that Jonas and Marian made for a great Robin and Marian, and that killing her off was a stupid idea.

But, we have to look to the future, and see what series 3 brings. For series 3 there will be a whole new blog, also linked on the sidebar.

29 July 2008 at 13:53:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

I think that Guy had feelings for Marian - even if he didn't truly love her - (he obviously loves power more than Marian, and the Sherrif IS power)Guy also believed that marrying her would make him "pure" - how naive! As Jonas said: 'He's still not going to heaven [even if Guy'd married Marian]. He's going to BURN in hell!'. I feel that Guy just owabted Marian
a) to get back at Robin
b) to be more like Robin (i.e. have all that is Robin's like his house, his Marian, his titles)
c) to make hiself a whole human being, (pure etc.) in a sick way

Do you get the impression that Much is kind of glad that Marian is "out of the picture"? Because it now means that Much can have Robin back for himself like in the good old days? Just a thought...

3 August 2008 at 04:00:00 BST  
Blogger Deborah said...

OK, everyone ... think about it. THERE WAS NO BLOOD when Guy stabbed Marian. THERE WAS NO BLOOD when the King was shot in the back with an arrow, and he recovered very easily. Things stopped making any kind of sense after they were rescued from the desert ... SO .... didya ever think that maybe they weren't???? Maybe that was all just a huge delusion. They were all on the edge of passing out when they were rescued. I'll be Marian is still alive & well & they're all still on posts in the desert ... alive.

7 August 2008 at 02:04:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

Allo Deborah!
That's what I think too! (I said somethng along those lines in a previous blog) and when you pointed out the lack of blood...well, I think we may have hit the mark! we might just be right!

8 August 2008 at 12:09:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, it makes much more sense, doesn't it? And, when you think about how ridiculous she seemed repeating over & over that she loved Robin Hood ... (in front of a very angry Sir Guy!) ... very out of character ... and would she really have been able to pull out that sword & say "that's better?" I thought also that the vision might have actually been Gisbourn's, but he didn't know about Djaq & Wil ... maybe Robin's ...

9 August 2008 at 02:34:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

Nah, if it's a hallucination it's got to be by one of the gang that are tied up on the posts in the desert. Robin's hallucination,most probably. and the idea of the "imposter" Marian or "cousin" Marian - I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but, up to the last 2 episodes of series 2, Marian didn't have a mole/beauty spot near the top of her lip, but in the last 2 episodes esp. the one in Acre, she has a rather obvious spot! this possiblt indicates that it's not the REAL Marian that is in Acre, but a very close look-a-like!!!!!!

10 August 2008 at 04:54:00 BST  
Blogger Shelley said...

All of your comments have made me think that maybe she could still survive. I think it'd be great if she could, because I too, cannot see Robin Hood lasting without her. I hope it is a hullicination, or something along the lines of that. I know that Marian dies, but I have yet to see the last 2 episodes, so Im not sure about the comments on Marian's 'weird, out of character' actions. But I hope she still is alive. It'd be awful if she's not.

14 August 2008 at 16:37:00 BST  
Anonymous SoniaDee said...

Hi, new here but I'll just jump right in.

I am really sad to see Marian go, of course. I mean, how can you do Robin Hood without her? I could definitely see her coming back as a hallucination of Robin's because I don't see him taking this terribly well. As Much said at the wedding in series 1 "he needs you". And he does.

14 August 2008 at 23:34:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Shelley,

The last 2 episodes are the ones which really disappointed the vast majority of Hoodies.

15 August 2008 at 00:04:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi SoniaDee,

I think the loss of Marian / Lucy is a blow the show might not recover from.

But to come back as a hallucination? Rather too Xena for me...

(and feel free to "jump right in" anytime. I hope you'll bookmark the site and stay with us through series 3.)

15 August 2008 at 00:07:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah, I don't think I'd be too interested in watching it if Marian were gone. The best thing about the show was that hot chemistry between Marian, Robin & Guy! So, otherwise, Robin goes back to England, maybe gets reinforcement from the Queen Mother & beats the crap out of the Sheriff & Guy & ... then what?

16 August 2008 at 02:48:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole end of season 2 is not right. According to all of the other movies/shows and books of Robin Hood, Robin is suppose to get married to Marian and she lives. The King is suppose to return to england and Marian should be there with Robin. That is how the story is suppose to go. With Marian dead, it changes the whole story of Robin Hood. I think they should remake the ending of Season 2 or there should be a miracle where Marian is not dead.

17 August 2008 at 05:59:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I watched this episode very carefully. This is what I noticed: 1) No one said that Marian died; 2) Marian's body was shown next to an open grave but she was not shown being put into it.

I'm not a regular reader of TV related stories and happened to stumble upon this site. If someone has seen a valid posting or a story that says Marian is dead, I would like to know about it. Someone's guess or opinion does not qualify as valid.

I agree that this twist is a non-traditional end to the Robin/Marian story line. I like what Lucy Griffiths brought to the story. Maybe the Night Watchman was a bit over the top and the writers needed to throttle back a bit.

18 August 2008 at 13:11:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

good point about the 'not actually burrying her but rather, just putting her nxt to an open grave'. and no blood stains, stab marks etc, altjough you could say its because the show is aired on prime time bbc with lots of little kiddies watching and blood may not be suitable, but yeah, it's more than likely that she's not actually dead that's why they never showed the "chucking sand on corpse" bit, to be blunt and crude.

18 August 2008 at 13:59:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, I just finished watching it. So infuriating. Your analysis is excellent. The legend of Robin Hood without Marian is pointless. They're supposed to live hapily ever after. The end.

19 August 2008 at 22:05:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yep. Agreed. She can't be dead. So, what'd'ya think happened?

20 August 2008 at 01:28:00 BST  
Blogger Shelley said...

Well I suppose all we can do is wait it out until the new season airs. Does anyone know when this is/may be? I think I'll be really annoyed if they do something rubbish in the beginning of the next season.

21 August 2008 at 03:05:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

In reality, Robin Hood and Maid Marian did marry in Edwinstowe Church. Screw the writers.

I don't have a date yet for series three. 2009 is now being quoted in some places, rather than this autumn.

21 August 2008 at 09:07:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

What REALLY gets to me is how Marian said really random out of character stuff like 'i love robin hood,' and 'i'd rather die than marry you,' rathger than say, shouting out for help, or doing her nightwatchman thing and whupping Guy's arse. and it irritated me terribly how robin and gang arrived literally seconds after Guy stabbed her! They could have showed up one second earlier and shot an arrow into his black heart, but noooo! They show up 2 seconds late and didn't even bother massacre-ing gisborne and the sheriff! just one stab into the sheriff and gisbourne and HURRAH! vengence! Point is, if Marian had tried, she could totally have whupped Gisborne and whacked his sword out of his hands and overpowered that swine until robin shows up on the scene, instead on saying the exact words that would prompt a guy that really "wants" her into stabbing her.
Grrrr...
And poor Carter. they didn't even show his body. just a mound of sand in the desert with a shiled with St George's cross. however, see how they indicated that he was actually 6 feet under, yet they didn't show Marian 6 ft under with a St George's cross shield! honestly! for god's sake - what is this? she didn't even get like a marker on her grave.

22 August 2008 at 12:48:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Eunice,

What more can anyone add to this already year long debate?

It was a dumb idea, devoid of all artistic merit, and totally lacking in any kind of continuity.

22 August 2008 at 23:45:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OK, 'Hood writers! Ya gettin' all this? Better shape up!

26 August 2008 at 03:11:00 BST  
Anonymous Deborah said...

Oh, how's this ... a soothsayer in the village has a vision on Robin's birthday ... and that's what we saw!

28 August 2008 at 01:29:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Let's face it guys, she's gone.

Not going to be the same around here without her.

But she's gone...

28 August 2008 at 09:32:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been apprehensive about putting a message on a site like this but I've been reading lots of comments both here and on others with regard to the dreadful finale to Robin Hood Season2.

Yes, doesn't it seem incredible that the death of Marian should go on for almost a year? I think that this reflects just how angry people can become when a treasured legend is tampered with. This version of Robin Hood has turned out to be really enjoyable, despite an unsteady start. I agree wholeheartedly that the crass decision by the writers and producers to kill off Marian will prevent this version from becoming a TV classic.

Killing such an essential character has not only denied the show one of it's greatest assets (Lucy Griffiths) but must have made it very difficult for the rest of the cast to try and convincingly 'talk up' the new series. Even the wonderful Richard Armitage had his doubts and said that he questioned the writers on the storyline.

I know we've been promised the return of Friar Tuck and an 'action packed' Series 3 but these two hardly make up for the loss of Marian and, from a female point of view, the chance to see Robin and Marian happily end up together. As my niece so aptly put it: "Friar Tuck and lots of action....yeah 'cos that's the same as their (Robin and Marian's) love story...."

It was unfair to the viewers who had been led to believe that the couple would "....kill the Sheriff, bring home the King and get married.....". In the end it was extremely disappointing and, I don't know about anyone else, but I felt as if the BBC had slapped me in the face! (Our grown up son came up with a much more rude analogy but it cannot be repeated here)!

I was looking forward to getting the Season 2 DVD but now I can't even bear to watch Season 1 knowing the direction the story takes.

As for a season 4 without Robin Hood! The producers and writers should be hung out to dry for coming up with such a ridiculous idea!

Thanks for reading this - just wanted to air my views!

28 August 2008 at 12:25:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi anonymous,

and thanks for airing your views.

As you will have gathered from the rest of my blog, all I can do is agree with you. And yes, after a whole year, the comments about Lucy still keep coming in.

I myself don't even own the DVDs yet. The death of Marian had such an impact, like you, I'm not really wanting to go back and watch that first series again yet, knowing how awful it all ends.

And one more point, as you raised the subject of children watching, many people expressed their concern that such a gruesome death was inappropriate at that hour, for that particular audience, and of that particular character.

28 August 2008 at 22:54:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, I agree about the youngsters watching the finale; and screening it between Christmas and New Year was hardly a sensitive piece of scheduling. It probably put a dampener on many a family party -well done BBC!

With regard to messing with the legend, I wonder if the writers and production team have ever heard the expression: 'If in ain't broke don't fix it'!

As for Marian returning: deep down I'd love to see it but I can't think how. Unless, of course, the writers are more brilliant than they'd have us think. I'd just love to see the story nicely rounded off at the end of season 3.

29 August 2008 at 17:54:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Apologies for the 'typo' in my last post. I was in a hurry! (Trying to do too many things at the same time). The expression should read: 'If IT ain't broke - don't fix it'!

29 August 2008 at 18:39:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

I do believe that the BBC ought to just stop at Series 3. I mean, they've killed off Marian, and if they have more serials to come, they'll just continue slaughtering them off, like the rumours that there isn't going to be a "Robin" after series 3. they should tie it off neatly and leave it without destroying the legend anymore than they already have, rather than creating distraught Hoodies everywhere.

6 September 2008 at 08:39:00 BST  
Blogger robin hood said...

Hi Eunice,

Don't worry about the legend. Something that's been so hugely popular for centuries is not going to be ruined by the whimsies of writer for TV.

But I certainly won't be continuing to blog after series 3. I shall run a series 3 blog as before, and enjoy it. But that's it for me.

8 September 2008 at 01:30:00 BST  
Blogger Eunice said...

What really got to me was that this version began so promisingly, brilliant actors, great soundtrack, enough drama (though it did tend towards the melodrmatic at the end esp series 2), promising story line, and then - BAM. I felt it was quite "up there" and in league with the classics, until, well, we all know what I'm refering to. I almost made "robin hood: men in tights" watchable, and less cringey after that disastorous last episode. way to ruin a classic in-the-making!
Q(-_-)Q

4 October 2008 at 15:45:00 BST  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am still very upset that Lucy was eliminated from the series. The script writer should be fired. There are ways to bring her back. This was such a good series and then it was ruined. Bring Lucy back!

24 June 2009 at 23:09:00 BST  

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